The Dr Jo Show

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Unknown
Screens have taken over our lives. What do we do about it? And that's today on the doctor GI show.

00:00:06:24 - 00:00:15:14
Unknown
Knowing how to manage screens is honestly one of the most stressful things as a parent. Because screens are everywhere. You've got TV, you've got iPads, you've got smartwatches, you've got phones.

00:00:15:15 - 00:00:37:07
Unknown
It literally feels like there's a screen every time you turn anyway. And so as a parent, it can be really hard to know how to navigate this. Now, I'm not a parenting expert. I'm a mum of five. You guys know I've got five kids, one aged five, and then the rest all up to the age of 14. Over the last 14 years I've been working this out myself, and from that I was going to share with you today some of the things I've learned.

00:00:37:07 - 00:00:41:10
Unknown
Ten rules for how to manage screen times with your kids.

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Unknown
Rule number one don't have a TV, but if you have a TV, make sure having it off is the norm. Now we don't have a TV. This was something that my husband introduced into our family once we started having kids. I actually grew up in a family that had a TV, and while we weren't TV obsessed, having it on was the norm.

00:00:58:16 - 00:01:16:12
Unknown
So you'd get home from school and have afternoon tea while watching a soap that was on at the time. But then after we did homework from about like 5:00 onwards, the TV was on in the background and it was typically news. We were pretty obsessed as a family with news. It's probably one of the reasons why I'm really, you know, quite into the news and politics today.

00:01:16:14 - 00:01:30:12
Unknown
So, you know, that was something good, I guess maybe that came out of it. But really, we had the TV on a five, the channel ten news six with the channel seven news 630 we switched to SBS seven. We would go to the ABC news, then would watch ABC 730 at 730. Then there'd be four corners on eight.

00:01:30:12 - 00:01:47:03
Unknown
I 30 like it was just news, news. This is news and you know, I think one of the things that that meant is we'd be having dinner enough in the news would be on in the background and it'd result in conversations about it. But we were a family that had the TV on in the background. Now, when we started having kids, my husband said to me, I don't want to do that.

00:01:47:03 - 00:02:01:05
Unknown
I don't want to have the TV on in our house. I just don't want to be one of those families. And I think he said it would produce more creativity. And in the kids it'd be better for our marriage. And so while I kind of fought him on it, ultimately I just said, okay, well, let's try it out.

00:02:01:07 - 00:02:18:11
Unknown
It meant that I had to adapt and learn to get news from other sources. So I started reading a lot of the newspapers online on my phone. And, you know, I missed kind of consuming in the way that I've been used to, but I could see that for our family, it had a lot of benefits because it meant that, you know, all of our mealtimes happened without screens.

00:02:18:11 - 00:02:35:01
Unknown
It meant that the kids would wake up in the morning and they just wouldn't be cartoons on all the news on. And it meant that our living room and I house wasn't designed around a screen. So often you go into people's houses and you can see their entire lounge room, and Am is just designed around this massive flat screen TV.

00:02:35:07 - 00:02:52:21
Unknown
And, you know, I think that it's really kind of life sucking to have that as the case, you know, I'm just going to call it I think so much of what is on TV is just utter B.S. you wouldn't want that going into your children's mind. So having a lounge room designed or family life around a TV, it's not a great thing.

00:02:52:21 - 00:03:09:02
Unknown
So rule number one is if you do have a TV, because I recognize that most people watching this probably have TVs. If you have a TV, having it off should be the norm. And when you turn it on, that should be an intentional act, because you've decided that we're going to watch this show, and this show is not a bad show for all of us to consume.

00:03:09:06 - 00:03:09:22
Unknown
Okay.

00:03:09:22 - 00:03:32:21
Unknown
Rule number two, don't use screens in the morning on a daily basis. So when kids wake up in the morning, I don't think there should be screens available to them to use. I don't think we should be modeling screen use first thing. So, you know, I am going to admit I feel so tempted when I wake up in the morning to turn over my phone and to start scrolling my feed, checking my messages, looking at what work emails have come in, checking news headlines.

00:03:32:23 - 00:03:50:03
Unknown
But it is such bad role modeling. If I do that, it is honestly so bad. So I try to fight that temptation. And generally my husband and I have a rule that we try not to be on our phones in front of the kids. And so in the morning, you know, go into the kitchen, make your breakfast, talk to the kids, talk to them about their days, give them a hug.

00:03:50:03 - 00:03:56:12
Unknown
Human contact is really important. And when we're all just on our screens, we're just so isolated. So don't have screens on in the morning.

00:03:56:12 - 00:04:06:00
Unknown
this is one that I've definitely failed at at times. So you know, when we were doing the live birth bill last year and it was so intense, the campaign for that lasted for a few weeks, and it was so intense for us as a family.

00:04:06:05 - 00:04:26:10
Unknown
And one of the ways I got through that time, oh, I thought I got through that time, was I would put a cartoon on for Tommy in the morning, on Netflix, on my laptop, and I would make his breakfast and he would just sit there and watch the show. And what would happen is the other kids didn't even like that cartoon because it was for a five year old, but they would often then bring their breakfast and sit with Tommy and watch that show, and then they'd want to watch another show at another show.

00:04:26:13 - 00:04:47:16
Unknown
And even if in my mind I was like, no, we're just watching one show while you eat your breakfast. I guess it just creates this back and forth. And what I noticed after a while was they just stopped playing to in the morning. Typically my kids are ready by about 730. They've got another hour before school where if they aren't in a TV patch, what they're doing is they're playing cricket in the yard, or they're making paper planes and flying them, or they're playing with to play.

00:04:47:16 - 00:05:08:23
Unknown
They're just doing something. My, you know, they're singing songs or looking up ballet dances online and then copying them. They're just doing something physical or creative. And, you know, I think what I noticed in that time when Tommy was just doing that while eating breakfast was it was sort of easier for me in the short term, but in the long term, my kids were ready, they were moodier, they were less creative, and they fought more.

00:05:08:23 - 00:05:22:21
Unknown
So ultimately, when that bill was done, I just, you know, ripped the band aid off and I stopped doing it because I could see we'd gotten into a bad habit. So if that's you guys and you've gotten into a bad habit of using screens in the morning, just get rid of it and it will set your kids off for a much better day.

00:05:22:21 - 00:05:39:17
Unknown
Rule number three, be intentional about screen time. So in our family, generally, we don't have screen time during the week, but when we do have it, we're intentional about it. So we have a rule that, like, if one of the parents is working late and you are the parent on duty, you can use screen time while the kids eat dinner.

00:05:39:17 - 00:05:41:01
Unknown
But it's one show

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Unknown
and it's typically a show that we think isn't going to be a bad influence on the kids. So I'll typically put on like VeggieTales or Bandstand Bears, which the older kids grumble about, but I know that that show is a good show. And I say to the other kids, if you don't want to watch that while you're eating your dinner, you can read a book.

00:05:56:06 - 00:06:19:13
Unknown
Now, it might sound like really bad parenting to put TV on during dinner, but there's an intentionality behind it. It's kind of just this recognition that we've got five kids, and when you're the solid parent and you're doing dinner with the kids, it's really hard. It's really hard to do that. And so just putting on one episode of the bandstand badge and having them all in a row and eating it just it's something that we do to survive.

00:06:19:13 - 00:06:50:18
Unknown
And so, we're intentional. It's got this time bound nature. It's not just going to go for ages. It's a half an hour. They're eating their dinner and then it goes off. Similarly, we don't do regular TV time on the week on the weekdays, but we do do it on the weekend. So we sort of have a 45 minute role on a Saturday for TV, and it's sort of an hour on a Sunday, so they each can watch something on a, on a, on a device at that time, but they're doing it in the lounge room all if they are doing it in a bedroom, we've got the door wide open and we

00:06:50:18 - 00:07:06:12
Unknown
can see what they're watching. We know what they're watching in advance with visibility around it. While they're having TV time. I will cut Apple and I'll distribute that around the house at some point. So they know mom's going to walk in and give them some food. So there's again, greater accountability and transparency about what they're doing. So be intentional about it.

00:07:06:12 - 00:07:09:03
Unknown
Know when they're doing it, how they're doing it and what they're watching.

00:07:09:03 - 00:07:33:19
Unknown
Rule number four, when screens are introduced for homework, make sure they're only used for that purpose. So this happened for us in year seven when I kids went to high school. They suddenly got given laptops by the school that then came home. Now I'm really happy because for my second child, the school has disabled the internet on the laptops so they can't be used for homework, which I just think is such a relief because I don't have to monitor what he's doing as much because he's just on Microsoft Word, which is just so much easier.

00:07:33:19 - 00:07:47:19
Unknown
But there's very little bad that can go on in Microsoft Word, but there's a whole lot of bad that can go on with the internet. So I'm just really glad that for my second child, the school's got a new role that just makes it easier for us as parents. But for my eldest, she's got a laptop. It's got access to internet.

00:07:47:19 - 00:08:06:11
Unknown
They didn't want to retrospectively introduce that for the nines. And so when your child gets a laptop for homework, you should actually, I think, make a rule that it's only used for homework. It doesn't just become this device where they can now search YouTube and go to tomorrow and do all of these other things, but it's for homework and you have visibility about it when they're doing their homework.

00:08:06:11 - 00:08:21:20
Unknown
So they're in a public place. You've spoken to them about what they're doing for homework on it, what websites they're going to go to, and you just know what they're doing. I mean, a lot of these means extra work for us as parents, but all of these extra work keeps your kids safe, and it ultimately produces better, healthier, happier kids.

00:08:21:20 - 00:08:45:24
Unknown
And it actually saves you trauma in the long run. So when my daughter originally got a, a laptop for homework, I discovered even though we had all of those kind of boundaries around it, I discovered that through Canva and I didn't even know this was an option. There was a chat going on, a group chat. And my kids don't have social media like they don't have Facebook Messenger, but I discovered that she was able to chat to her friends via Canva, and I didn't want that.

00:08:45:24 - 00:09:14:01
Unknown
Like, that wasn't something we wanted because I. It's distracting. While you're doing your homework to be chatting to people online, be I sort of have a theory that they're seeing each other all day. They don't need to be chatting online after hours as well. It can result in a lot of extra drama that we just don't need. And so once I discovered that, that was happening, I then, you know, put in an expectation that in our family, when not chatting on apps, when we're doing our homework and in fact, these devices that the school has given us for homework, we're not using for other purposes after school.

00:09:14:01 - 00:09:25:02
Unknown
Rule number five. Know where your screens are. So if your children have laptops for school, once the homework is finished, make sure those laptops don't get charged in the bedrooms, but they're left on the kitchen benchtop and they charge there.

00:09:25:02 - 00:09:47:08
Unknown
If your kids have iPads that they use for personal time. So for TV time for us on the weekend, our kids use an iPad. Make sure those iPads are stored on the kitchen benchtop, either in a locked box that you that mean that they definitely go away, or that you've got visibility around. And if if, your kids have any other kind of device, it should definitely not be in the bedroom.

00:09:47:08 - 00:10:01:13
Unknown
So that's something I want to make really clear, that devices in bedrooms with access to the internet, you are literally allowing a child to have access to the very worst things in the world, the very worst people and predators and websites, the darkest shit

00:10:01:13 - 00:10:11:21
Unknown
imaginable. He's on the internet. And so if you allow your child with a device in their room which has access to the internet, you have opened up your front door and let all of the dangerous people in.

00:10:12:03 - 00:10:28:10
Unknown
it's literally an insane thing that so many parents allow their kids to have devices overnight in their rooms. One of my daughter's friendship groups, the kids in her friendship group, literally have fights overnight while they're on their phone, sometimes at 11:00 at night, midnight. She hears about it the next day at school.

00:10:28:11 - 00:10:47:14
Unknown
it's all unnecessary drama that those girls don't need to be involved in. They should be sleeping equally. We know because of pornography that that's just like this virus that's taking over our children's lives that they have access to and limited ability to exercise self-control. Because we know that in the teenage years, their frontal cortex isn't developed.

00:10:47:17 - 00:11:11:21
Unknown
So why are we giving them access to the worst stuff in the world when their capacity to choose right from wrong and to make good, healthy choices isn't there? I was speaking to this mum in the pickup zone because she'd heard me talk about this on the radio, because I'm very passionate about this topic. It actually makes me angry that parents are so liberal with phone use because it affects all of our children, it affects all of us, and if we could all just get our shit together, then all our children would collectively be safer.

00:11:12:02 - 00:11:39:04
Unknown
But this mum told me in the pick up sign that her child is in primary school. Mind you, fight her over the laptop, smuggles it into his room at night and watch his stuff in the middle of the night. And he gets into such tantrums about it and she just doesn't know what to do. Now, I don't want to be judgy, and I hope this doesn't come across as really judgy, but if you're a parent and your child is smuggling devices into their room and then screaming at you about it, you just need to man up and be the parent, okay?

00:11:39:04 - 00:11:56:01
Unknown
Kids aren't necessarily going to like this. They aren't going to appreciate it when you suddenly turn around with these new ten rules to screen time in your house. You're not going to be the most popular parent, but you are the parent and they are the child. They live in your house. And so your rules are the rules that govern that house.

00:11:56:08 - 00:12:02:18
Unknown
The takeaway is you can't allow yourself to be dominated by your child. If the child is really tempted by this laptop, then lock it away.

00:12:02:18 - 00:12:26:15
Unknown
But equally, if they keep stealing it or they've found ways to steal it, there's got to be consequences for that. So in our family, some of the consequences we've imposed when devices have been misused is you don't get to use the iPad to watch TV for a month. One of our children, I'm not going to tell you, had TV time taken away for six months, and they hated it so much because on the weekend everybody else got to have their device time and they didn't.

00:12:26:20 - 00:12:36:07
Unknown
And so that was just this, you know, cure for that child. So you've got to be the parent because you are the person who's charged with keeping your children safe

00:12:36:07 - 00:12:43:01
Unknown
so that segways into rule number six, which is don't allow devices in bedrooms. I think I've labeled that one enough. So I'm not going to repeat that one.

00:12:43:01 - 00:12:46:11
Unknown
But don't allow devices in bedrooms.

00:12:46:11 - 00:13:09:13
Unknown
Number seven, be intentional about outdoor play and rating. So when your children play outside, it just produces in them endorphins that make them happy because they are outside in nature. Exploring similarly with reading. Reading expands your mind and opens you up to a whole lot of new ideas. It's a key indicator of whether you're going to be happy and successful in your life and fulfilled.

00:13:09:19 - 00:13:30:14
Unknown
Get your kids involved in this early with my little ones. You know, my number four child. He really loved to eat food and he'd always want snacks, but I actually would give him this snack and I'd say, go outside. His first word, no joke was outside, because that's what I would say. I would say outside, go outside because I just wanted him to go outside and play.

00:13:30:17 - 00:13:46:14
Unknown
And so make sure that your kids are getting outdoors time every day. They'll come to you and tell you they're bored. Mom, I don't know what to do. I'm bored. We just say, you know, it's really corny, but I sometimes say the kids, when kids say they're bored, it's time to do chores. Which is like this line from the bandstand.

00:13:46:14 - 00:13:52:15
Unknown
Bears. They always roll their eyes at me, but sort of smile. But I also just say, we don't use that word in our family when I say we're bored

00:13:52:15 - 00:14:03:09
Unknown
because from boredom comes creativity. So it's really important that you just allow your kids to be bored, to feel that boredom, because from that they will start to play and do other things with reading.

00:14:03:09 - 00:14:06:15
Unknown
If you have kids that aren't into reading. So my eldest daughter loved to read,

00:14:06:15 - 00:14:10:16
Unknown
but when it came to my son, the second child, he didn't take to it in the same way.

00:14:10:16 - 00:14:33:05
Unknown
And so we had to introduce this chart, and I produced this chart that I, made up online like a 100 books. And every time he read a book, he colored it. And then it actually added up to $100, and he was able to go and buy a really good Lego from Kmart after doing that chart. But, you know, by reading 100 books, because he was so motivated by the incentive, he actually started to love reading.

00:14:33:05 - 00:14:50:13
Unknown
And this kid is so challenging now that not when I've touched him in and he's gone to bed, you know, he's not playing on a device. But you know what we've covered recently in our home, he's smuggling a book and reading books, under the covers. So, you know, we have smashed him for that because in our view, sleep time is sleep time.

00:14:50:13 - 00:15:09:07
Unknown
But secretly, we were kind of pleased that he has taken to reading so much so, you know, rule number seven, be intentional about outdoor play and reading. It will take work for you to facilitate that. It's easier to just turn on a device, but ultimately you'll be raising kids that know how to occupy themselves in the future. And so you're setting them up for a great life.

00:15:09:07 - 00:15:29:12
Unknown
Number nine model, good screen use. Now, I was really stressed about getting to this one, because I just feel like I'm not the best role model. In fact, at times, especially after I started going on social media to do this work on abortion, you know, I just it was so tempting to just look at my face, to look at how things were going to, to constantly be watching videos online.

00:15:29:18 - 00:15:42:21
Unknown
It's just and especially in the live birth spell that all these politicians are calling me. So I was on my phone constantly. So at various points in my mothering journey, my nickname for my husband, no joke has been phone. Like he literally just says, hey, phone, get off your phone and he's just so rude about it.

00:15:42:21 - 00:15:58:17
Unknown
But, you know, in actual fact, it's really loving that he holds me, to a high standard on this, because as any of us know, when we do the doom scroll, you actually feel really shitty about yourself afterwards. You feel depressed, and it's not life giving to just scroll all the time or to just be glued to this device.

00:15:58:17 - 00:16:00:19
Unknown
It's so much better to not be

00:16:00:19 - 00:16:04:12
Unknown
I really like it when James calls me. Fine. Because it reminds me to get off my phone.

00:16:04:18 - 00:16:31:04
Unknown
And I know that when I'm on my phone, I'm setting such a bad example for the kids because I'm not listening to them and I'm not attentive. So as parents, we just need to get our own device use in order. We should not be on a device in front of our kids. That's quite a strong rule to make, but ultimately, unless it's an emergency, we shouldn't be on our phones when we've got kids around and we shouldn't be ever looking at a phone when a child is talking to us.

00:16:31:04 - 00:16:42:14
Unknown
So I said that was rule number nine, but that was actually rule number eight. Because rule number nine is do not buy a smartphone for high school. So again, this is one of my top bugbears that parents when their kids go to high school, buy them a smartphone.

00:16:42:14 - 00:16:56:03
Unknown
It's like this rite of passage. And I saw it and in my daughter's friendship group that all of her friends just suddenly had smartphones. And on the first day, when they were catching the train into school, all of these kids just got out their phones and was scrolling, and she's just there going, what the heck do I do?

00:16:56:03 - 00:17:07:16
Unknown
And when you ask these parents about why they gave their kids a phone because of high school, they say invariably it's because of safety. It's because we want to be able to contact them, and it's because we want to know that they're safe and we want to know where they are at all times.

00:17:07:18 - 00:17:25:17
Unknown
Oh my goodness. Could there be a more stupid reason for giving your child a phone in high school? The most unsafe thing you can do for a high school kid is to give them a smartphone with access to the internet. If you want to know where they are at all times, buy them a watch or buy them a flip phone or buy them a dumb phone.

00:17:25:17 - 00:17:34:19
Unknown
There's a whole lot of options that don't involve giving your children access to the internet, which is the most dangerous thing in the world for children to have access to unsupervised.

00:17:34:19 - 00:17:49:09
Unknown
There's a mental health epidemic amongst teenagers, girls have the worst self-esteem, more eating disorders, all of that stuff. Anxiety, depression. In my view, it's coming from largely these phones that kids have unfettered access to.

00:17:49:15 - 00:18:07:21
Unknown
For girls, we have this innate, competitiveness or just jealousy. We do the scroll, we look at the people online. They just look so much better than us. It makes us think about how we're looking. It's just not a healthy thing for a teenage girl to have access to. For boys, there are different temptations, but I've already spoken about porn

00:18:07:21 - 00:18:10:13
Unknown
That is such a point of addiction for boys,

00:18:10:13 - 00:18:26:03
Unknown
and to give them unfettered access to the internet. Even if you think you've got your filters and your parental controls, they have their ways around it, and it's just creating this obsession with the phone at a point in their life with I just don't need it.

00:18:26:03 - 00:18:42:18
Unknown
And then rule number ten and this is fundamental explain to your children the why of why you're doing this. Because it is different. It is countercultural. And I know what you're thinking, guys, when I just said to you, don't give your kids a smartphone, probably the very first thing you thought of is, I don't want my kid to get bullied at school.

00:18:42:18 - 00:18:56:07
Unknown
I don't want them to get left out on the train, and I don't want to have to deal with all of their tantrums and anxiety and anger because of this. I don't want them to become rebellious. I don't want them to get a phone and use it secretly behind my back. I'd rather know what they're doing. So I get all of that.

00:18:56:12 - 00:19:18:08
Unknown
So that's why you actually have to treat them like little mini adults and tell them why. When kids a little, you know, below the age of seven, it's obedience. It's delayed obedience is disobedience. And you teach your kids to just obey you. But as they start to get past that age of reason and they can have these little independent thoughts, you have to go through it with them.

00:19:18:08 - 00:19:36:16
Unknown
You have to have the conversations about the reason Mum and dad have chosen to have this kind of family culture, where we limit screen use in our family, and where we don't just get smartphones as a rite of passage when we go to year seven. And, and I think you have to share with them the data, you have to show them the research and the studies.

00:19:36:16 - 00:19:57:14
Unknown
There's heaps of stuff online that, you know, I've even printed out articles and shown it to my older kids to sort of explain, this is why we don't want to have phones. I have parenting books in the house. I've got how to raise a strong daughter in a toxic world. I've got raising girls, my stable, I've got these books that my daughter will read, and I'll say to her, read this chapter, which is about screen time.

00:19:57:16 - 00:20:16:17
Unknown
And it just gives her the Y instead of us sounding like these completely loony, out-of-touch parents, which is taking her on the journey with us, and we're showing her that we're doing it out of love. And, you know, she started high school when she was the only kid on the train without a phone, and they started calling her nerd because she would take out her book and read it.

00:20:16:17 - 00:20:32:03
Unknown
and on that first day when she came home and she said, mom, it's really hot, can I please get a phone? We had another long chat over a hot chocolate where we talk too bad at about why Mom and Dad didn't think it was the right thing for had our phone, and why we all agreed that we were going to try this out, and she agreed to give it another shot.

00:20:32:03 - 00:20:55:24
Unknown
And you know what? Within a week she actually was proud of the fact that she didn't have a phone, and she could see that it was actually a badge of honor to be rebellious against this culture that was so pervasive. And she hasn't asked us for a smartphone, she hasn't wanted one. And when my son started high school this year, he didn't ask for a smartphone because he just knew we weren't going to do it because we'd fought that battle with the eldest, my ten year old daughter.

00:20:55:24 - 00:21:12:03
Unknown
He's very sassy. I'm sure she's going to turn around, perhaps and ask for a smartphone, but we know the why would we teach them the why? And we bring them on board, and we do a lot of fun stuff as a family, so we are always doing these outdoors families adventures on Sundays. We spend a lot of time with the kids.

00:21:12:03 - 00:21:35:23
Unknown
The kids love rock climbing. We really invest in that and pursue that sport option for them. They know they have parents that are so invested and love them so much that they not just want to keep them safe, but they want them to have full, happy, meaningful lives. And I think that's the key role. Number ten, be close to your kids, have a relationship with your children so they understand the why of the rules that you're imposing around screens.

00:21:36:05 - 00:21:51:13
Unknown
All right. That was a big list. And I know some of it would have been confronting. Tell me what you think in the comments, guys. I'd love to hear from you. What do you do in your family around screens? And maybe you've got a rule number 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. Put them in the comments. I look forward to continuing the chat there.

00:21:51:13 - 00:21:53:17
Unknown
And that's today on the Doctor Joe Show.